When are we autists going to stop playing nice, trying to fit in and instead realise the world is ours for the taking if we only summon the courage to do so?
I'm starting an autist supremacy group and plan on recruiting at top universities. We'll be like magneto's mutants in X-men.
自闭症团结：天下是我们的。
(Chinese is the natural language for autists by the way, I recommend you all learn it)
Do you think that adult diagnosis brings a sense of relief and a different perspective to being diagnosed as a child? Because for me autism is nothing more than a burden in my life, which I thought nerfed my social skills but actually does so much more damage than that.
I'd guess this would be hard for Laurie to know, having only being diagnosed as an adult. I've never been diagnosed with autism, but I was diagnosed very young with OCD... and I find it hard to feel positive about the diagnosis, but I can see how if I'd been diagnosed as an adult, the explanatory aspect of the diagnosis might have been a relief.
I'm generally very conflicted about a fully affirmative model of neurodivergence. I do think that society is structured in a lot of ways that have made having OCD harder to deal with (certainly a lot of childhood bullying) but I also think it would be frustrating and difficulty at best in a society tailored to my neurodivergence (which is frankly already tailored to my privileges of race and gender already!)
I'm debating whether to read 'Obsessive, Intrusive, Magical Thinking: A Life Lived Obsessively' or not!
This is perhaps too out there or specific to be a useful question, but does your autism affect your experience of social deduction games (The Resistance, Secret Hitler, Coup) in ways that you can identify and articulate?
Congratulations! Good to get that over with probably? The outing.
I keep waffling on getting assessed - Come to suspect something ADHD|ASD like being my neurotype, for a long time now. I've always known I'm not neurotypical - was suspected of being dyslexic and treated as in school, though they didn't formally test me there.
And I'm aphantasic and have a kind of transient anomia. ADHD came up as a question when I was In school and I've long has a some spectrum like traits that I just thought were not strong enough to really count most of my life.
More recently though, last decade or so, reading up on folks who are both, ADHD + ASD, it sounds VERY familiar.
Found some places I can go to get that checked out. Not cheep but think our insurance will cover some of it at least. Seemed straight forward but then I know it can kick off a process that can last years.
But also, I feel like there is inertia in taking action there, something that looks like well, what if they don't think so? I'm REALLY good at passing, masking.
And what if they do?
And does it really mater? I don't know if I really need medication or help. Being 'certified' might be of use when explaining why somethings are hard for me. But I'm not entirely sure it's worth the work for it? I'm 51 so I've gone a long time without that already.
But realizing that's likely a thing, puts some of the issues I've had over the years in perspective.
I’ve never been diagnosed. In fact, I’m an empathic mental health therapist. I never understood the diagnosis. Now that I’m turning 70 and retired it has become clear that my fears and my differences make sense. Of course I never understood the diagnosis . . . for me it is simply normal. As I’ve looked back over my life there are finally things I understand, yet I’m still at a loss as to how to put the pieces of my puzzle together.
Have realized over the last couple of years that I’m a toxic mix of being moderately-to-severely depressed while on the spectrum. Now reaching a point that I can’t imagine what it would be like to be normal other than (I presume) less stressed, short-tempered and Gary, which I attribute to frustrations of life given, IMO, extremely limited abilities or skills for a normal life. Too, there’s a lot of that If I knew then… thing. That is, if I knew then, maybe I would have done better in therapy. Maybe. But I would have made an effort not to get involved in what would end poorly — that is, pretty much every relationship in my life.
I should be clear that however judgmental I am about myself in no way is meant to extend to anyone else. I’m me and am a proven POS for reasons. Doesn’t mean that anyone like me is anywhere near as bad as I and I certainly don’t believe being anything like me means that POS thing. I see my life as a maze with only bad turns and no way out. Again, not imputing that to anyone else.
Oh so familiar. Especially the relationship issue, but I was fortunate to find a good fit with a man as quirky as I. Actually one more intelligent who appreciates my oddness unconditionally. This was a turning point for my own POS view of self, but it still lurks in the shadow and finds its way out when I judge myself. Haha. Sadly this is most days. I’m currently reading Robert A. Johnson’s Owning Your Own Shadow. Aha moments galore!
If you were I was simply going to follow. No worries. Some days I deal with it, others I stay away. I got involved because of my book—not the one already published but another I considered querying for representation. I am moving and putting most of my life in boxes until I want to jump back in. For now, I’m simply looking forward to getting baby chicks and a donkey. I may never leave home again except for groceries I can’t grow.
Thank you for your openness and bravery in sharing this. I'm glad for you that you finally have some answers after such a long time.
I was wondering what autistic traits you have that are most predominant - longest ingrained, most strongly presenting. What are your autistic superpowers? Of course only what you're comfortable sharing.
And how can people help? When you meet strangers is there anything they could do to better communicate with or support you?
Heh, well of course you are - I'm self-dx (currently pursuing official diagnosis) and I really enjoy your writing. It seems we flock together much like any other birds ;)
Although you're very sociable, maybe you're ADHD as well XD
Most of my relationships until now have lasted almost exactly as long as it took for me to feel comfortable not masking, or until masking became impossible.
When it became clear that there wasn’t a ‘normal woman’ underneath the quirky, dynamic, manic pixie weirdo- that actually the private self is that, only weirder and more sensitive to interruptions and sudden changes in the schedule.
It has tended to disappoint people. So much so that I truly brace for impact when people I care about tell me how very clever I am, because that usually means I’m to be dumped.
Interesting thread. Congratulations! I think having a bunch of cards you can hand out when it feels appropriate is a bloody brilliant idea. Stuff like this should become normalised and fun. I imagine autism is actually your superpower. I reckon we should all be grateful for neurodiversity. How can the world embrace this better?
Thanks. I have mixed feelings about this. Honestly, a lot of the things that I consider my superpowers in life, in terms of practical ability, are autistic traits. And I agree that neurominorities bring great and specific benefit to the collective human experience.
But what’s been the revelation to me has been the idea that we shouldn’t have to. Not all autistic people have those savant-like skills, or special ‘superpowers’, but even if we do, we shouldn’t have to point to those to justify why we deserve agency and respect. Of course, that’s particularly hard in the blasted moral landscape of modern capitalism that considers productivity synonymous with human worth.
Long before I had words to explain any of it, I felt driven to over-achieve and being home high marks and prizes as proof that I was worth something, hoping that would make up for my obvious oddness and the difficulties I seemed to cause people without meaning to. As an adult I’ve retained that compulsion to work and produce to ‘make up’ for being the way I am. ‘Maybe if I’m talented enough and nice enough people will put up with me.’
Honestly, I’m sick of that heuristic, on my behalf and others’.
Thanks for this comment, Laurie, it's an important one. It is worth remembering, I think, that - largely - neurodivergent folks have to be relatively high-functioning to have a wide platform or self advocate.
This is interesting. Yes I can see how that pressure to mask and/or prove your worth is damaging. I'm sorry - this must have been difficult. No one should have to 'make up' for the way they are.
I have always seen your work as looking beyond the horizons of our time and this 'blasted moral landscape' as you put it. I guess that's what I mean by superpower. Not high grades, achievements, productivity etc. but being able to see things in a way typical brains might not. I wonder if that's a thing? And I wonder what you have learnt about how others see things?
In understanding what you’ve described re: the interaction with your family member… are you saying that they have always known about your diagnosis but didn’t tell you? Were you formally diagnosed as a child or an adult?
Just interested to know why they didn’t share your diagnosis with you! I feel like it’s key information that might help someone understand themselves. I certainly have autistic traits (sensory issues esp. around noise, difficulty reading and participating in social situations, rigid thinking etc) and just trying to decide/ understand what’s involved in an adult autism assessment… that’s why I was wondering whether you’ve recently gone through the process x
just wanted to thank you for doing this. it’s a service. autism runs in my family and i’ve also been in relationships with spectrum folks. there is so much i wish i’d known, the conversations were never had, and the diagnoses never discovered in some cases. everything seems so clear in hindsight that it’s heartbreaking. open-heart things like this will help a lot of people. thank you. ♥️♥️
No real question here. Just want to assure you that all people who love you as a person and your writings will still do - any diagnosis doesn't change who you are, right? Don't care about the rest of the people.
But of course it changed your own view onto yourself. Maybe a bit like when you love a painting for decades and think you know it by heart - and then somebody points at some detail here and some colors there and everything makes even more sense. It is the same picture, though - the painting you love. But your perception changed. Sometimes this may happen with a piece of music, or some book - or afilm. Or a person. Or yourself. Still the same.
Really appreciate you sharing this. I'm starting to be pretty certain of ADHD for myself, and have some testing scheduled soon. My brother was diagnosed with ADHD last year and also suspects he might be autistic as well. What you've said in the other comments about having a frame for understanding yourself (paraphrasing) and feeling empowered to share it really resonates. Thank you
When are we autists going to stop playing nice, trying to fit in and instead realise the world is ours for the taking if we only summon the courage to do so?
I'm starting an autist supremacy group and plan on recruiting at top universities. We'll be like magneto's mutants in X-men.
自闭症团结：天下是我们的。
(Chinese is the natural language for autists by the way, I recommend you all learn it)
Do you think that adult diagnosis brings a sense of relief and a different perspective to being diagnosed as a child? Because for me autism is nothing more than a burden in my life, which I thought nerfed my social skills but actually does so much more damage than that.
I'd guess this would be hard for Laurie to know, having only being diagnosed as an adult. I've never been diagnosed with autism, but I was diagnosed very young with OCD... and I find it hard to feel positive about the diagnosis, but I can see how if I'd been diagnosed as an adult, the explanatory aspect of the diagnosis might have been a relief.
I'm generally very conflicted about a fully affirmative model of neurodivergence. I do think that society is structured in a lot of ways that have made having OCD harder to deal with (certainly a lot of childhood bullying) but I also think it would be frustrating and difficulty at best in a society tailored to my neurodivergence (which is frankly already tailored to my privileges of race and gender already!)
I'm debating whether to read 'Obsessive, Intrusive, Magical Thinking: A Life Lived Obsessively' or not!
Thanks for running this, Laurie!
This is perhaps too out there or specific to be a useful question, but does your autism affect your experience of social deduction games (The Resistance, Secret Hitler, Coup) in ways that you can identify and articulate?
Yes. I suck at them but very much enjoy watching people play them.
Congratulations! Good to get that over with probably? The outing.
I keep waffling on getting assessed - Come to suspect something ADHD|ASD like being my neurotype, for a long time now. I've always known I'm not neurotypical - was suspected of being dyslexic and treated as in school, though they didn't formally test me there.
And I'm aphantasic and have a kind of transient anomia. ADHD came up as a question when I was In school and I've long has a some spectrum like traits that I just thought were not strong enough to really count most of my life.
More recently though, last decade or so, reading up on folks who are both, ADHD + ASD, it sounds VERY familiar.
Found some places I can go to get that checked out. Not cheep but think our insurance will cover some of it at least. Seemed straight forward but then I know it can kick off a process that can last years.
But also, I feel like there is inertia in taking action there, something that looks like well, what if they don't think so? I'm REALLY good at passing, masking.
And what if they do?
And does it really mater? I don't know if I really need medication or help. Being 'certified' might be of use when explaining why somethings are hard for me. But I'm not entirely sure it's worth the work for it? I'm 51 so I've gone a long time without that already.
But realizing that's likely a thing, puts some of the issues I've had over the years in perspective.
I’ve never been diagnosed. In fact, I’m an empathic mental health therapist. I never understood the diagnosis. Now that I’m turning 70 and retired it has become clear that my fears and my differences make sense. Of course I never understood the diagnosis . . . for me it is simply normal. As I’ve looked back over my life there are finally things I understand, yet I’m still at a loss as to how to put the pieces of my puzzle together.
Thank you for this.
Also pushing 70.
Have realized over the last couple of years that I’m a toxic mix of being moderately-to-severely depressed while on the spectrum. Now reaching a point that I can’t imagine what it would be like to be normal other than (I presume) less stressed, short-tempered and Gary, which I attribute to frustrations of life given, IMO, extremely limited abilities or skills for a normal life. Too, there’s a lot of that If I knew then… thing. That is, if I knew then, maybe I would have done better in therapy. Maybe. But I would have made an effort not to get involved in what would end poorly — that is, pretty much every relationship in my life.
I should be clear that however judgmental I am about myself in no way is meant to extend to anyone else. I’m me and am a proven POS for reasons. Doesn’t mean that anyone like me is anywhere near as bad as I and I certainly don’t believe being anything like me means that POS thing. I see my life as a maze with only bad turns and no way out. Again, not imputing that to anyone else.
YMMV to say the absolute least.
Oh so familiar. Especially the relationship issue, but I was fortunate to find a good fit with a man as quirky as I. Actually one more intelligent who appreciates my oddness unconditionally. This was a turning point for my own POS view of self, but it still lurks in the shadow and finds its way out when I judge myself. Haha. Sadly this is most days. I’m currently reading Robert A. Johnson’s Owning Your Own Shadow. Aha moments galore!
Lucky! Good for you!
Are you on Twitter?
I am but mostly politics/current affairs/civilization collapse, nothing personal but I can of course be DM’d.
If you were I was simply going to follow. No worries. Some days I deal with it, others I stay away. I got involved because of my book—not the one already published but another I considered querying for representation. I am moving and putting most of my life in boxes until I want to jump back in. For now, I’m simply looking forward to getting baby chicks and a donkey. I may never leave home again except for groceries I can’t grow.
Thank you for your openness and bravery in sharing this. I'm glad for you that you finally have some answers after such a long time.
I was wondering what autistic traits you have that are most predominant - longest ingrained, most strongly presenting. What are your autistic superpowers? Of course only what you're comfortable sharing.
And how can people help? When you meet strangers is there anything they could do to better communicate with or support you?
Hugs xx
Heh, well of course you are - I'm self-dx (currently pursuing official diagnosis) and I really enjoy your writing. It seems we flock together much like any other birds ;)
Although you're very sociable, maybe you're ADHD as well XD
How do you think its affected partnerships? Close relationships, people who you don't mask for?
Most of my relationships until now have lasted almost exactly as long as it took for me to feel comfortable not masking, or until masking became impossible.
When it became clear that there wasn’t a ‘normal woman’ underneath the quirky, dynamic, manic pixie weirdo- that actually the private self is that, only weirder and more sensitive to interruptions and sudden changes in the schedule.
It has tended to disappoint people. So much so that I truly brace for impact when people I care about tell me how very clever I am, because that usually means I’m to be dumped.
Aside from how heartbreaking that is, how has that changed with your new relationship? What happened differently to say, 'Reader, I married him?'
Interesting thread. Congratulations! I think having a bunch of cards you can hand out when it feels appropriate is a bloody brilliant idea. Stuff like this should become normalised and fun. I imagine autism is actually your superpower. I reckon we should all be grateful for neurodiversity. How can the world embrace this better?
Thanks. I have mixed feelings about this. Honestly, a lot of the things that I consider my superpowers in life, in terms of practical ability, are autistic traits. And I agree that neurominorities bring great and specific benefit to the collective human experience.
But what’s been the revelation to me has been the idea that we shouldn’t have to. Not all autistic people have those savant-like skills, or special ‘superpowers’, but even if we do, we shouldn’t have to point to those to justify why we deserve agency and respect. Of course, that’s particularly hard in the blasted moral landscape of modern capitalism that considers productivity synonymous with human worth.
Long before I had words to explain any of it, I felt driven to over-achieve and being home high marks and prizes as proof that I was worth something, hoping that would make up for my obvious oddness and the difficulties I seemed to cause people without meaning to. As an adult I’ve retained that compulsion to work and produce to ‘make up’ for being the way I am. ‘Maybe if I’m talented enough and nice enough people will put up with me.’
Honestly, I’m sick of that heuristic, on my behalf and others’.
We should all go on strike.
Thanks for this comment, Laurie, it's an important one. It is worth remembering, I think, that - largely - neurodivergent folks have to be relatively high-functioning to have a wide platform or self advocate.
And then there’s those of us unable to do the work in the first place and have nothing to go on strike over. You know, gross underachievers.
*bring home.
This is interesting. Yes I can see how that pressure to mask and/or prove your worth is damaging. I'm sorry - this must have been difficult. No one should have to 'make up' for the way they are.
I have always seen your work as looking beyond the horizons of our time and this 'blasted moral landscape' as you put it. I guess that's what I mean by superpower. Not high grades, achievements, productivity etc. but being able to see things in a way typical brains might not. I wonder if that's a thing? And I wonder what you have learnt about how others see things?
In understanding what you’ve described re: the interaction with your family member… are you saying that they have always known about your diagnosis but didn’t tell you? Were you formally diagnosed as a child or an adult?
I’m deliberately smudging a couple of details here for privacy reasons xx
Just interested to know why they didn’t share your diagnosis with you! I feel like it’s key information that might help someone understand themselves. I certainly have autistic traits (sensory issues esp. around noise, difficulty reading and participating in social situations, rigid thinking etc) and just trying to decide/ understand what’s involved in an adult autism assessment… that’s why I was wondering whether you’ve recently gone through the process x
just wanted to thank you for doing this. it’s a service. autism runs in my family and i’ve also been in relationships with spectrum folks. there is so much i wish i’d known, the conversations were never had, and the diagnoses never discovered in some cases. everything seems so clear in hindsight that it’s heartbreaking. open-heart things like this will help a lot of people. thank you. ♥️♥️
I’m sorry about that. What is it that now seems clear, if you’re able to say?
No real question here. Just want to assure you that all people who love you as a person and your writings will still do - any diagnosis doesn't change who you are, right? Don't care about the rest of the people.
But of course it changed your own view onto yourself. Maybe a bit like when you love a painting for decades and think you know it by heart - and then somebody points at some detail here and some colors there and everything makes even more sense. It is the same picture, though - the painting you love. But your perception changed. Sometimes this may happen with a piece of music, or some book - or afilm. Or a person. Or yourself. Still the same.
Love,
Daniel
Hi, Laurie.
I can identify with this, a great deal.
There has been something going on for decades, when I have unknowingly tortured myself in jobs and places, I didn't belong.
Asperger's or something was how it was described.
There was a lot of head nodding, when a friend heard me describe my three days and nights, at the computer.
History dissertation, an academic had published something that just didn't feel correct.
I can do massive attention to detail, and regard it as spiritual quest.
Not formally diagnosed, it just all makes sense.
Best wishes,
Rob.
Long time listener, first time caller, just wanted to say what a beautiful, simple and inspiring post that was.
Thank you,.
Thank you. Loads and loads more to say about this! xxx
Really appreciate you sharing this. I'm starting to be pretty certain of ADHD for myself, and have some testing scheduled soon. My brother was diagnosed with ADHD last year and also suspects he might be autistic as well. What you've said in the other comments about having a frame for understanding yourself (paraphrasing) and feeling empowered to share it really resonates. Thank you